Thread: Do people still argue about enmity?    

I know I've seen it pop up in threads a lot. Well, I picked up some of the latest JP guides during a trip to the city. Scanning through them, I found a section that they've never featured before: Enmity. It's separated into two types, and had little charts detailing how each type works.

I feel like this hasn't been so clearly explained before and a lot of people argue over how the system of enmity actually works. Looking at FFXIclopedia, there definitely seems to be some confusion, although the theories are close to what this book explained.

Of course there's the chance I'm out of the loop and this will be OFN, but I thought what the hell and wrote it up. Everyone likes charts.

---

Enimty – The factor that determines who your enemy attacks

Whether you attack an enemy, use magic, or activate an ability, these actions generate enmity, and it is not something you are able to track on-screen. Since the enemy will attack those who create high levels of enmity, it is important for a party to exercise Enmity Control. The tank should create a lot of enmity, while other attackers and healers need to keep their levels of enmity low.
---

Actions that increase and decrease Enmity

Increase

• Attacking the enemy (more damage = more enmity)[/*:m:ffcd0]
• Using an ability[/*:m:ffcd0]
• Casting magic[/*:m:ffcd0]
• Resting near an enemy your party is fighting[/*:m:ffcd0]
• Casting magic on an ally the enemy is fighting[/*:m:ffcd0]
• Healing an ally the enemy is fighting (more HP recovered = more enmity)[/*:m:ffcd0]

Decrease

• Taking damage[/*:m:ffcd0]
• Absorbing an attack through Utsusemi[/*:m:ffcd0]
• Time passing[/*:m:ffcd0]
• Using High Jump[/*:m:ffcd0]
• Using Super Jump[/*:m:ffcd0]

Reset

• Changing areas[/*:m:ffcd0]
• Getting KO’d[/*:m:ffcd0]
• Using Hide (against enemies that detect by sight only)[/*:m:ffcd0]
• Using Tame[/*:m:ffcd0]

---

2 Types of Enmity: Volatile & Cumulative

There are two types of enmity to consider, Volatile enmity, which decreases over time, and Cumulative enmity, which time has no effect on. The type of enmity you generate is dependent on the actions you take, and the sum of these determines your level of enmity. As a tank, you’ll want to raise both types to get the enemy to focus on you. As an attacker or healer, it’s best to wait until after the tank uses Provoke before using a Weapon Skill or healing spell.

http://www.cactusleaftl.com/ffxipics/enmity1.jpg

---

http://www.cactusleaftl.com/ffxipics/enmity2.jpg

*NOTE: Cure V does not follow the rule of Cure level enmity generation and has its own set amount
---

As for equipment, the section simply has a picture of the information box for Valor Gaunlets. It states, “There exists equipment that makes it easier or more difficult to generate enmity. Use them as your party situation dictates.” I assume it just adds of subtracts the value of the equipment to/from the value of enmity you originally create. From there, the type of enmity made determines how it dissipates.

First time I've seen talk about "cumulative enmity", I thought all enmity simply decreased over time. Are there any tests that show this?

Also want to add a note that there is a "enmity cap" meaning you reach some level of enmity and can't generate anymore, all actions that increase enmity simply restore you to that cap. This can be tested with two tanks farther along in an HNM fight (on an HNM that doesn't reset hate) as almost any action can switch hate between the two tanks.

Wow, that's really cool. I hadn't really known about cumulative enmity either, I assumed it decayed too, but it'd explain a few things.. But then again, it sort of wouldn't. It's hard to imagine holding hate through an entire Tiamat as something like NIN/DRK if your healers are never taking any damage, and their hate is just building and building. @.@ Will test if I can, though it looks right as you've shown it..

For completeness's sake, you might want to put that using items will get some miniscule amount of hate (it will, won't it?) similar to that of some job abilities like actually using Sharpshot, for example. Or maybe that's just hate decaying on me funny. >.> Very interesting.

Culmulative enmity makes no sense. By the end of long fights everyone would be getting owned by w/e you killing. Unless there is no Hate cap, which doesn't make sense either. I don't think anyone is really gonna be able to explain it perfect, other then SE(wut?).

If you does lose hate from curing without getting hit, then WHMs would hit the top of hate lists crazy fast and get nailed. Just doesn't sound right to me.

Fail guide is fail. Doesn't even mention provoke increases enmity+ and lowers enmity-.




Maybe the hate from cures are very small compare to voliate hate spikes?

if there is a cap in hate, is it possible to stay in it or keep it i mean? Or is the only way to lose it is by getting hit or any kind of hate reset/enmity decrease hits?

I just want to mention that the OP is all verbatim (though translated) from the guide book. So it's not my opinion or my lists/chart. Also, this means things like items generating hate or logging out to reset hate aren't there, but may still have an effect on the game. It seems actions, food, items all give the spike hate that gradually goes away, while magical abilities for the most part give Cumulative.

I think healers don't get owned so easily because while they continue to build hate, so does that tank and hate from dealing damage is sustained just like Cure hate. Although they get hit, the tank is also generating spiked Volatile hate at the same time to keep their hold on the monster.

It makes sense to me on the small scale, from playing PUP and SMN. Maybe BSTs can relate as well? On the large scale I don't have as much research experience with enmity management.

Thanks for sharing this Elmer! I always enjoy your contributions.

I had figured the hate system was something like this. RDM/NIN tanking really has nothing to do with getting spikes of hate, its just that all that spamming of Bind and Sleep spells really really adds up, and its part of why RDM/NIN is so hard to peel hate from with out the use of spike hate grabbing abilities like Invincible or Provoke (lolvoke).

not to sound skeptical, but i wouldnt mind seeing some kind of proof about it tbh. But im actually still interested in the hate cap, and how to keep it steady sort of speak.

This stuff about cumlative hate is old news to me, you can see sometimes if a PLD hits a load of their abilities in one go, and someone pulls a 2.5k+ MB, they might pull it off him/her, where as after 15mins of constant flashing and curing, despite the nuker making smaller nukes, the 2.5k MB won't budge it. That isn't explained very well

It's easy to see that enmity modifications affect the hate generated on a single action, but I've always been curious as to whether - and + enmity affect the 'hate decay' over time, but that's a difficult one to test.

Originally Posted by richardd

not to sound skeptical, but i wouldnt mind seeing some kind of proof about it tbh. But im actually still interested in the hate cap, and how to keep it steady sort of speak.

Just create more hate than you lose. You only lose hate from decay and taking damage (or hate reset) so once you're at the cap, you only need to generate as much hate as you lose, as opposed to earlier in a fight when you want all the +enmity you can so that you can get to the hate cap.

It's pretty easy to prove there's a hate cap, I found it out for myself while tanking some small man Cerb's a while ago. I'd have roughly +20 enmity as pld/nin, my co-tank pld/nin would have +40 at least. He'd spam JA's and I'd conserve them. First 5-10min Cerb was almost always on him, after a bit though, it would easily bounce between the two at almost anything either one of us did. A flash, a JA, a cure, etc. would make Cerb change targets. That was because we were both at the hate cap, and whatever spell/JA we did would put us right at the highest hate you can have while the other tank will have decayed a small bit to be put to 2nd on the hate list.

I'm willing to buy the "Cumulative enmity" except for the chart saying it as a cure. Unless like someone suggested there is a hate cap for cumulative hate, it makes no sense because healers would quickly hit the hate cap with the tanks.