Salvage - Arrapago Remnants - thread 2

[Drex]

Prolly a dumb question, but does the large psycheflayer link with the smaller ones? Same for the bhoot. If so, how many do you usually need to clear out (if any) before pulling it, assuming you don't wait for a perfect pull positioning?

Edit: Sorry for edit, had another question. How do you usually deal with the flayers on the way to the QQTH room? There's 2 in the 3rd room that always seem to hover by the door, and there's always one or two against the walls of the long room. Do you try to MGS them, or just kill em for cells?

[Crizto]

The Psycheflayer won't link with any of the other mobs in the room. Bhoot I'm not too sure, but it shouldn't link because normal ghosts/bhoots don't link. And on the way to the QQTH Room, we usually will just MGS them. If we happen to aggro one then we'll kill it and Store TP.

[Bakthi]

The bhoot won't link either. We usually have to pull 0-2 NQ bhoots; at least half the time, we can pull the NM immediately, but sometimes 1-2 will be floating around directly in front of the entrance to the room. Not killing them because they will link, but because they would aggro the puller.

[Lilswitche]

Anyone done arrapago within last couple days?

Out of 16 Qutrub, we got 3 Head and 1 Weapon. We then move onto skellies. Out of 12 Skellies we got 11HP and 10 Waists, 2 INT, 2 VIT. I'm not gonna lie either, this is my very first time ever seeing INT or VIT drop from the skellies on first floor. Normally we'll do 13-14 skellies on 1F and walk away with 1-3 HP, a couple belts maybe, then end up killing a buncha skellies on 2F and 3F. This was just absolutely ridiculous. Ninja fix droprate?

[Wolfknight]

Originally Posted by Lilswitche

Anyone done arrapago within last couple days?

Out of 16 Qutrub, we got 3 Head and 1 Weapon. We then move onto skellies. Out of 12 Skellies we got 11HP and 10 Waists, 2 INT, 2 VIT. I'm not gonna lie either, this is my very first time ever seeing INT or VIT drop from the skellies on first floor. Normally we'll do 13-14 skellies on 1F and walk away with 1-3 HP, a couple belts maybe, then end up killing a buncha skellies on 2F and 3F. This was just absolutely ridiculous. Ninja fix droprate?

we almost always get enough hp/waist(5~10 of each) and normally a few str or int from them; do you guys like not bring a thf?
we did arrapago twice earlier this week(tues/wed) and cell drops seemed about normal for us.

[Lilswitche]

Originally Posted by Wolfknight

we almost always get enough hp/waist(5~10 of each) and normally a few str or int from them; do you guys like not bring a thf?
we did arrapago twice earlier this week(tues/wed) and cell drops seemed about normal for us.

Never done arrapago without a thf. I've prolly run it at least 40 times by now too.

[zard1977]

The drop rate of cells from skeletons will be increased greatly if you killed at least 13 qurtrubs on floor 1.

Tried and tested dozens of times for me.

[OctavoGilgamesh]

Originally Posted by zard1977

The drop rate of cells from skeletons will be increased greatly if you killed at least 13 qurtrubs on floor 1.

Tried and tested dozens of times for me.

You know what, I might have stumbled upon this last night as well. First time my group has ever been full on hp cells before we ported up on 3rd floor. My brd got a little antsy and pulled some extra qutrub after I said to pull only the lamia from the 1st room west. With my normal route, that would give us exactly 13 qutrub killed.

Every skelly either dropped waist or hp. I was able to port up after clearing the first room of skellies + the drg skelly north. Normally we have to continue SE till we get both mnks hp.
I'll try to confirm this myself next time, but seems highly likely that is what happened. Maybe it was a fluke, but I've never seen drops like that.
If this is indeed fact, I wonder if it works the other way as well, kill 13 skellies and qutrub drop rate increases as well.

[Kaeko]

Originally Posted by OctavoGilgamesh

You know what, I might have stumbled upon this last night as well. First time my group has ever been full on hp cells before we ported up on 3rd floor. My brd got a little antsy and pulled some extra qutrub after I said to pull only the lamia from the 1st room west. With my normal route, that would give us exactly 13 qutrub killed.

Every skelly either dropped waist or hp. I was able to port up after clearing the first room of skellies + the drg skelly north. Normally we have to continue SE till we get both mnks hp.
I'll try to confirm this myself next time, but seems highly likely that is what happened. Maybe it was a fluke, but I've never seen drops like that.
If this is indeed fact, I wonder if it works the other way as well, kill 13 skellies and qutrub drop rate increases as well.

We did an Arrapago the other day without a THF (bad idea...) and went literally 0/every skele on 1F and 3F. Didn't touch a single Qutrub. I do remember we went another run awhile back where we again had no THF and killed nearly all the Qutrub hoping for a weapon drop... then the Skeles dropped enough HPs for everyone like in 1 leg...

I always dismissed this as random though.

[SamanosukeShiva]

yup arrapago without thf is a nono, even with /thf still a nono found out the hard way haha, naked fight @ armored chariot ftw

[Kaylia]

Originally Posted by zard1977

The drop rate of cells from skeletons will be increased greatly if you killed at least 13 qurtrubs on floor 1.

Tried and tested dozens of times for me.

It does make some sense. I was always under the impression that "good weapon drop rate mean shitty hp drop rate", and something like this could explain it.

Personally, I never noticed a huge difference with and without thief. He is just easier to blame for low drop rate when he isn't here.

[Crizto]

Shoot I didn't know the number was 13 for Qutrubs. This could definitely speed up the 1F for me by a couple min. We usually would kill 4 from the NW wing and clear the entire SW wing, just because earlier i was under the impression that you needed to clear a whole wing of Qutrubs to make Skele's drop more often.

[Chupunpupun]

Originally Posted by Crizto

Shoot I didn't know the number was 13 for Qutrubs. This could definitely speed up the 1F for me by a couple min. We usually would kill 4 from the NW wing and clear the entire SW wing, just because earlier i was under the impression that you needed to clear a whole wing of Qutrubs to make Skele's drop more often.

I just finished arra and tried the 13 qutub thing and it it's false. Cell from the bone was just as rare as usual I.E back or hp was not dropping 100%. We got 3hp and 2back from 3 rooms of bones.

[Crizto]

Originally Posted by Chupunpupun

I just finished arra and tried the 13 qutub thing and it it's false. Cell from the bone was just as rare as usual I.E back or hp was not dropping 100%. We got 3hp and 2back from 3 rooms of bones.

I have to agree with you. We just tried that 13 Qutrub thing as well last night, and the Skeleton's were dropping not nearly as much as they normally should. We were forced to backtrack and pull the rest of the SW wing just to get more HP cells. Lead to a pretty meh run, but we did get Skadi Feet 35 . Anyways, I'll stick with clearing an entire wing to be safe from here on in.

[Shassira]

Originally Posted by zard1977

The drop rate of cells from skeletons will be increased greatly if you killed at least 13 qurtrubs on floor 1.

Tried and tested dozens of times for me.

Can we please stop giving random information without any type of base whatsoever? There is no proof at all about this and there's way too many negative reports of this idea, stop spreading it. If you have tried it "dozens of times" then please go ahead and parse the loot pool the other dozen times you do it, then after it do it another 12 times without killing your magic number qutrub. Even then the sample size would be small, but at least would be a guide.

Just you saying "i did this a dozen times and it's true!" means nothing. If there is indeed a trigger for better wing drops it could be anything, from the kill of a marked qutrub to the cleaning of a specific room, etc. Going down to conclusions without a proper analisys won't help anyone and you'll spread false ideas to people that may not have experience or will to test the oposite.

Everyone needs to learn to express things in terms of doubt when there is no solid evidence to support what you are saying. There, rant off.

(PS: We've killed full wings of qutrub only to have almost no drops on HP later on as well as having ridiculous drops on skeletons. There may be a trigger for the different drop patterns apart from the normal luck+TH effect, but it's not directly the number of qutrub you kill.)

[zard1977]

I've never said I got any proof to back it up other than what I experienced. You can choose to believe it or not I could care less. I've never tried to "spread random information". I was only responding to a previous poster's observation with my own observation.

Or maybe you are expecting cells dropping 100% from skeletons? Getting 3-4hp, waist, 2 str, int is pretty good for 3 rooms of skeletons to me.

[Crizto]

Originally Posted by Shassira

Can we please stop giving random information without any type of base whatsoever? There is no proof at all about this and there's way too many negative reports of this idea, stop spreading it. If you have tried it "dozens of times" then please go ahead and parse the loot pool the other dozen times you do it, then after it do it another 12 times without killing your magic number qutrub. Even then the sample size would be small, but at least would be a guide.

Just you saying "i did this a dozen times and it's true!" means nothing. If there is indeed a trigger for better wing drops it could be anything, from the kill of a marked qutrub to the cleaning of a specific room, etc. Going down to conclusions without a proper analisys won't help anyone and you'll spread false ideas to people that may not have experience or will to test the oposite.

Everyone needs to learn to express things in terms of doubt when there is no solid evidence to support what you are saying. There, rant off.

(PS: We've killed full wings of qutrub only to have almost no drops on HP later on as well as having ridiculous drops on skeletons. There may be a trigger for the different drop patterns apart from the normal luck+TH effect, but it's not directly the number of qutrub you kill.)

Doesn't matter, we've proved it was false the same night pretty much.

Clearing the SW wing of Qutrubs has consistently made HP and Back/Waist cells drop in the SE wing. I don't know how it effects the other Skeleton wing.

[Uzor]

I'd have to say there's some kind of connection to Qutrubs and Skeletons. When we first started doing Arrapago, we used to clear only the first room of Qutrubs, then sneak/invis up and kill all of the Lamias in each Qutrub, then move on to skeletons, which proceeded to not drop anything. Nowadays, we clear all Qutrubs but the last room where we only pull the Lamia, and then move on to skeletons, which drop HP/waist pretty much every skeleton, along with a good deal of STR and INT cells.

Doesn't really prove anything, and I've never actually thought about it before. I do find it interesting, though.

[Veli]

which way are you going and not getting hp cells? They seem to drop a lot every run.

[Bakthi]

Originally Posted by SamanosukeShiva

yup arrapago without thf is a nono, even with /thf still a nono found out the hard way haha, naked fight @ armored chariot ftw

I've done Arrapago with a /THF a few times with no serious problems. THF is better, of course, but I won't call a run off for lack of THF main if we can manage a SAM/THF. We've used /THF several times in Zhayolm too. I will say that the 2 times I've done Arrapago with no TH at all (first one our THF DC'd 5 minutes in and didn't come back; 2nd time we were all dumb and forgot to give the /THF the first SJ cell) sucked hardcore.

[Lilswitche]

Did another Arrapago tonite, and same findings as my last run. We killed a total of 15 Qutrub and 6 Lamia, 10 Qutrub from the NW wing, the 4 on the SW inner room, and we accidently pulled an extra qutrub from the SW wing.

Went to the skellies after and everyone was able to get waist/hp unlocked (group of 7) without even needing to clear the whole SE wing. We got 2 STR, 2 VIT, and 4 INT as well.

I find it extremely odd that mimic'ing our last run's mobs did yet again yield high drop rates from the skellies. I just want to reiterate that all previous runs I had ever done, we normally wouldn't clear all the lamia from the NW wing, nor would we kill that many Qutrub. At this point, I'm fairly convinced the skelly drop rate is affected by something you do with the western side of the map.

[Slott]

Originally Posted by Lilswitche

Did another Arrapago tonite, and same findings as my last run. We killed a total of 15 Qutrub and 6 Lamia, 10 Qutrub from the NW wing, the 4 on the SW inner room, and we accidently pulled an extra qutrub from the SW wing.

Went to the skellies after and everyone was able to get waist/hp unlocked (group of 7) without even needing to clear the whole SE wing. We got 2 STR, 2 VIT, and 4 INT as well.

I find it extremely odd that mimic'ing our last run's mobs did yet again yield high drop rates from the skellies. I just want to reiterate that all previous runs I had ever done, we normally wouldn't clear all the lamia from the NW wing, nor would we kill that many Qutrub. At this point, I'm fairly convinced the skelly drop rate is affected by something you do with the western side of the map.

We've been doing that path for months, and never ever have problems getting HP or belts.

[Kaeko]

Really sorry if something similar to this has been said before, but I was able to solo the Archaic Chariot on 5F in 18 minutes with a SCH/RDM in the portal room. I had unlocked - ability, magic, SJ, weapon, jewelry, body, and feet/legs. Was never supposed to be a solo but the other 2 on the run died in really bad spots with very bad time left so I went ahead and tried on a last ditch effort.

Basically, the room with the portal to 6F has the portal and 4 pillars. Pillars impede sight, so you can't see/cast on things behind it. The chariot is sight tracking apparently because as I kited around the pillars, he would lose aggro very easily. I basically kept Bio II on then when it deaggroed (about once every 60 seconds), I quickly used Parsimony + Blizzard IV, which did about 630 damage (chariot has 15000). I started the fight around 300 MP (fast pull because I had a clean look) and was able to maintain 3 MP/tick refresh (body, ring, sanction). Using Parsimony, I was able to kill it before actually running out. Couldn't use Sublimation because you need the HP cell for that to work.

The pillars also make the chariot run very long turns since it's bulky, very good kite space. The SCH nuking efficiency thing really helped for this.

[fishstix]

Originally Posted by Kaeko

really amazing SCH stuff

I self-duo'd the QQths and had some extra time on my hands, so tried this out as rdm/X (lost SJ cell due to inventory drama). I was able to get the chariot down to 91% with bio2 and poison2 alone, but kept dying :/ I have trouble kiting around the pillars. I think in the other solo/duo post, it was calculated that bio2/poison2 by itself would be a 50 minute kill, so what you did is pretty cool :O

[Kaeko]

Originally Posted by fishstix

I self-duo'd the QQths and had some extra time on my hands, so tried this out as rdm/X (lost SJ cell due to inventory drama). I was able to get the chariot down to 91% with bio2 and poison2 alone, but kept dying :/ I have trouble kiting around the pillars. I think in the other solo/duo post, it was calculated that bio2/poison2 by itself would be a 50 minute kill, so what you did is pretty cool :O

I found it impossible to kite w/o movement speed +12% and promptly died w/o it the first time we tried this (with 3). It also has very fast building resist to bind and gravity, so you can't rely on those for more than maybe 4-5 uses. If you get stratus cell I think it becomes rather easy though.

[Jem]

On the subject of killing X amount of Qutrubs supposedly increases the drop rate on the Skeles. Is it possible that there is a random Qutrub each run that when it's killed increases the drop rate for the whole floor or maybe just skeles? That would then be kind of like the random Merrow/Lamia popping the Rampart.

I don't know if anyone is compiling information but I can give you the data from my run last night. No idea of moonphase, time, day, etc but entered at 17:59 GMT yesterday.

15 Qutrubs (NW Wing minus 2 in G-7 + 4 in G-9 room) - 5 Incus, 1 Cast
9 Lamia/Merrow (BLM x2, RNG x2, SMN, COR, RDM, SAM, BRD) - 4 Prae, 1 Spiss, 2 Opacus, 2 Undulatus
9 Reserve Draugar - 5 Humilus, 2 Velum, 6 Pannus, 7 Cirro, 0 Nimbus

By far our best run drop wise on the 1F, it was the first time I've ever seen a double cell drop on a Qutrub. Pity no NM's put out 35 wise. Had TH3 if it matters.


EDIT: Doubt it matters but starting chest was: Incus x2, Prae, Dup, Opacus x2, Undulatus, Cumulus, Congestus x2

[Aemora]

Ewwwww, Double Vit chest :<

Our last... Idk, chests for the last month have yielded 2 JAs, and it's reaaaaaaaaaaaly pissing me off now :<

Just saying I'd prefer Magic > JA

[Judai]

Originally Posted by Aemora

Ewwwww, Double Vit chest :<

Our last... Idk, chests for the last month have yielded 2 JAs, and it's reaaaaaaaaaaaly pissing me off now :<

Just saying I'd prefer Magic > JA

Personally I like 2 /ja since 2 of the next 5 mobs we kill can drop Magic and the next /ja chance isn't for 10+ mobs. 2 VIT sucks though, lol. Any combo of Legs/Body/Rings/STR/Belt is own.

[Kaylia]

Str/Body is my favorite. Double my damage on first floor when I get.

Vit in first chest isnt that bad (especially if none drop on ghost), it reduces dmg taken by a lot early and you can aggro everything without causing trouble.

[LordBane]

Originally Posted by Jem

On the subject of killing X amount of Qutrubs supposedly increases the drop rate on the Skeles. Is it possible that there is a random Qutrub each run that when it's killed increases the drop rate for the whole floor or maybe just skeles? That would then be kind of like the random Merrow/Lamia popping the Rampart.

This would be entirely difficult to test, not even sure why anyone would want to go down this path to speculate about. I believe in the x #qutrub kill, never had a prob getting enough hp on 1F doing this. Even -if- it is a random qutrub, by killing 15-17 of those mofos (b/c of the path we do), i'm 90% positive i killed the bastid.

But hey, if you wanna test it, go right ahead. I got QQs to kill and QQ about.